Jason Buckner on Show #3: Organisation, Excel and Automating your Business

jason buckner

Organisation, Excel and Automating your Business from Jason Buckner, The Sales Automation Expert’

Listen Below and Here’s What We Recommended:


  • Duolingo – an app on your phone to learn a language through regular exercises and repetition.


  • Inbox Pause – to pause your gmail Inbox. You can continue to work in your email and read and send emails, you just don’t see the new emails during this time so it’s less distracting.
  • Jason used and recommends Excel for project management not just for the usual spreadsheet type work. I’ve since found a tool called Smartsheet, which is a collaboration tool for businesses based on spreadsheets
  • Camscanner – for scanning documents on the go on your phone or tablet so you can email documents in situ. You can also use it to fax (do people still do that?!)
  • World Internet Office – a cloud based internet office. You can use this to grow an email list, as a shopping cart to process sales and to manage your customer details

Other Resources

  • Jason is following a course by Kerry Fitzgibbon to learn how to re-market on Facebook, which means using Facebook advertising to attract interested parties and then using the filtering to re-advertise to those people once they’ve ‘shown an interest’ in what you have to offer in some way (they may, for example, have clicked on a previous ad or have already visited your website).
  • Cashflow, a game by Robert Kiyosaki to teach you about asset vs liabilities and how to become financially free. Also Cashflow for Kids, as above but for children (really?!)




  • Jason suggests using your email tool to triage your email inbox and flag emails by colour by urgency to signpost what you need to do to action them, and in what order

To Contact Jason

Tweet: “I also use an app on my phone, I don’t leave home without it, I don’t go to an event without it, which is called…” http://ctt.ec/K5H6J+

Tweet: “I’ll check through all of my emails first and I flag them with different colours according to what has to happen urgently” http://ctt.ec/vsFoL+

Tweet: “I love Excel. I use Excel for everything I possibly can.” http://ctt.ec/uQiSf+

Read Full Transcript

Jo Dodds: Today I'm interviewing Jason Buckner of Automation Made Easy. Hi, Jason. Great to have you with me.

Jason Buckner: Hi, Jo. Thank you. It's great to be here.

Jo Dodds: This is Jason Buckner from Australia. This is my first international interview, so it's some ridiculous time of night for you now, isn't it?

Jason Buckner: It's about 9:15 at night actually, yeah.

Jo Dodds: Oh, not too bad.

Jason Buckner: It's probably some silly time in the morning for you there, is it?

Jo Dodds: No, it's early afternoon. It's just after lunch. I did an interview in Australia a few months ago there where I had to get up and do it at 6:30 in the morning. You can actually tell. I should have gone off and done some singing exercises or something, but you can tell I'd literally just woken up. Hopefully I'm sounding awake.

Jason Buckner: Some exercise or something, yeah. Hopefully I don't nod off by the end of it.

Jo Dodds: Start by telling us a bit about you, what you do, and where you do it.

Jason Buckner: Jo, I run my business doing a couple of things, and I run it all from home, so I'm sitting in my office at home at the moment with my dogs running around in the background. I do a couple of things. The first one is I help people or I teach people how to automate their online business and marketing, so that could be automating the processes of going through a sales process on their website, going through an opt-in and a sales process and how to automate that whole process. I also run a done-for-you service where I do that for people as well. I manage that for people. That's my first income stream. My second income stream is event management and marketing management for customers as well. I do all of this for different sized companies, I guess. I do it for internet business experts and entrepreneurs, as well as people just starting out online and starting out with their businesses online.

Jo Dodds: Excellent. You work from home. What does a typical day look like for you? I know there's never a typical day, but paint a bit of a picture for us.

Jason Buckner: It all depends really, but I generally like to ... I like to wake up without my alarm clock going off, so I get up at this probably anywhere between 7am and 9am in the morning, and I wake up when my body says wake up. Then I get up and I grab my breakfast. I always like to think about having a little relaxation time before I start going to the office, which is about 30 seconds away from my kitchen, but generally, I don't follow that advice and I come over here, over to my desk, with my cup of tea and my Weet-Bix and my banana, and I start eating while I check my emails.

Jo Dodds: I like the honesty there, the “this is what I think I ought to be doing, but this is actually the reality”.

Jason Buckner: Yeah. Really I should be taking a break and looking at my emails at 11:00 in the morning or something like that, getting some project work done, but I generally don't follow that advice.

Jo Dodds: Then do you just get stuck straight in or do you then throw in some other routines once you've done the first email bit?

Jason Buckner: I tend to break it up a little bit. I'll check through all of my emails first and I flag them. I flag them with different colours according to what has to happen urgently and what has to happen a little bit later. I go through. I never answer the emails on the first run through. I always go through them all first, check them all, and then come back to them according to their urgency, as I was saying. That'll be for the first hour or hour and a half. Then I respond to the urgent ones.

Then I go off and have some project time. I work on, whether it be projects for whatever different customers that I'm working for at that point in time. I go through that until midday. Then I have another little email session after lunch. Then I go back and have another project for a few hours in the afternoon. Sometimes that project time runs into the evening or beyond, but generally I like to work from about 8:00 in the morning to about 6:00 at night, or sometimes less than that. I try not to work on Fridays at all.

Jo Dodds: Wow, that sounds really good and organised. I hear so many people talking about only checking emails at certain times, but then that not happening. I don't profess to do that. I actually do check them much more often and I shouldn't.

Jason Buckner: You know what, I do fall into that trap again. The easiest way not to check it is to turn your email
programme off when you're working on other things.

Jo Dodds: Yeah. How do you deal with that though when you've got stuff in your emails that you need to refer to? That's the bit that's always thrown me.

Jason Buckner: Ah, see, that's tricky then, isn't it? That's tricky and there's no way of not receiving the notifications and not getting distracted when you have to refer to the emails for the projects.

Jo Dodds: Although I do think ... I'm going to have to check this out. I'm sure there's a tool or an app that you can install on Gmail that pauses the inbox, so you can still use it but things don't pop in that are new. Yeah.

Jason Buckner: Yeah, I guess you could turn your internet off as well, although most things I do are on the internet, so it's a bit difficult not to use that, but you can also copy and paste the email into Word if you really needed it and work from Word rather than working from the emails, I guess, yeah.

Jo Dodds: Yeah. I'm going to check that out. I'll let you know if I find anything.

Jason Buckner: All right. Very good. Let me know how you go and I'll do it too.

Jo Dodds: You're good at finishing in the evening by the sound of it, although I'm sure you probably do do stuff later with the international aspect of your role, but what stuff do you do in the evening when you're not working or to stop you working?

Jason Buckner: To stop me working? I either participate in sport or participate in swimming, to be exact, or I coach swimming. Tonight, just before this interview, I've just come from my swimming squad and I was coaching them this evening, so 90 minutes of coaching or 90 minutes of swimming generally. The thing I love about swimming or coaching is when I'm there, when I'm at the pool, for that 90 minutes, I don't think about anything else. I'm either thinking about improving my swimmers’ technique and helping them grow as swimmers or helping them get fitter or helping them get faster, or I'm in the pool, thinking about my own techniques. It's literally downtime as far as all business and stuff, thinking about the business, or thinking about what I have to do or don't have to do. I forget about it all and it's blissful.

Jo Dodds: I suppose the thing with swimming is you can't have your smartphone distracting you at that moment either.

Jason Buckner: No, you can't. You can't get your emails while you're in the pool either, although I'm sure there's going to be some device that'll allow that in the future.

Jo Dodds: Excellent. Is there anything else that you do to help you wind down in the evening? Anything that is sort of a typical routine for you?

Jason Buckner: Sometimes a glass of red wine, I guess, but aside from that, walking my dogs, taking my dogs to the park at the end of the day. It's nice to do something that says, "Okay, this work time is over, and now it's time for relax." It's nice to shock your body, I like to call it, or shock your mind as well, something completely different that takes you out of that zone.

Jo Dodds: I don't suppose there's a coincidence that the things that you're mentioning are outside of the home. Do you think that, as somebody who works from home, that getting out of the house helps you to break that work routine as well?

Jason Buckner: Yeah, you know what, Jo, I hadn't actually thought about that until I was just saying it. As I was saying it, I was thinking all of these things are out of the house, so yes, there probably is some good advice there to get out of that area. For me, my office space is almost in my lounge room which is almost in my kitchen. I live in a fairly small apartment, so almost my whole house is my office. It's good to get out of that zone and just to completely be out of the environment as well to help you switch off, I find, anyway.

Jo Dodds: I'm just laughing that the only option at home is to go and sit in the toilet.

Jason Buckner: Almost, almost.

Jo Dodds: Yeah, the outdoor stuff sounds much more pragmatic.

Jason Buckner: Yeah.

Jo Dodds: When you're actually working then, through the day, how do you manage your tasks? You talked already about flagging your email list, which I think sounds like a really interesting way of managing your emails. I also liked that you don't deal with them straightaway, because a lot of people follow the time management advice of only touching things once, whether that be paperwork or emails, but I work very much like you. I triage my emails before I then work on them, which works for me and clearly works for you. How else do you make sure that you get stuff done? Do you have a to-do list other than the emails? Or do you just use the email list for that?

Jason Buckner: Can I come back to that just for a minute? Just 1 other thing on the emails and the reason why I tend not to reply to them in the first place as well is sometimes I get emotional about the content of them. When I first read things, sometimes I get emotional or wound up or that's not right or you know, and I don't like to respond to them when I'm in that state of mind and when I first read something, which is why I always like to go back to them and read them a second time before I reply, because what if what my first impression was isn't necessarily the impression of the email. That's why I choose to do it that way as well, or one of the main reasons why I choose to do it that way, not just for time management but also for emotional content management, I guess.

Jo Dodds: Yeah. No, that's really interesting. I tend to reply and not send things if I'm particularly emotional about something. I'll reply, save it, and then go back and delete it, and then try again when I've calmed down a bit.

Jason Buckner: Yeah, yeah

Jo Dodds: That could be dangerous if I click the wrong button, I guess.

Jason Buckner: Yeah, a similar technique for the same thing. Yeah.

Jo Dodds: Yeah, yeah, no, that's really interesting.

Jason Buckner: How do I manage my time, I guess. I love Excel. Microsoft Excel is always open on my computer, and I use that all the time, but I also have a notepad on my desk where every day, every morning, I'll set the new to-do list. It will encompass some of the things from the day before that I'll transfer across to the new day, as well as some of the things that I've discovered in the emails, and put it into a step-by-step process generally. That's what I'll usually do.

Jo Dodds: Then what sort of ways are you using Excel?

Jason Buckner: I use Excel for everything I possibly can. As I said to you, I manage events, so I'll do what I call a work breakdown structure for the event, so a little bit of my project management background there coming through. Basically every step of the event will have a different page or a different component that's listed in Excel, sometimes with a timeline, other times with a status or something like that. Every component is in there in ... Just another way of doing a list format really.

I also use Excel ... I manage, for one of my customers, I manage a training centre here in Australia, and I use Excel for managing the dates and for seeing everything at a glance as to what it is that I have to be organising for that particular client. I use it for doing reports, profit and loss reports, and expense reports, and all of that sort of thing, calculating what our profit is expected to be. From 1 end of the scale to the other, I use Excel for all of it.

Jo Dodds: Yeah, impressive. I try and avoid Excel, I think. No, no, I do use it, but I wouldn't have thought about using it for lists of things, project management. I use different tools for that, but interesting that that works for you.

Jason Buckner: That's probably why I work in automation and you work in what you do, I guess.

Jo Dodds: I'm organised too, just not with an Excel spreadsheet.

Jason Buckner: Yes, you are. Yes, you are, one of the most organised people I know, actually.

Jo Dodds: What about other tools and apps that you use and you'd recommend?

Jason Buckner: Excel is the first one I recommend, which is just fantastic. I love it. I also use an app on my phone, I don't leave home without it, I don't go to an event without it, which is called CamScanner, which I use on a daily basis. It's a really cool app that basically scans things. You take a photo of it and it scans it, it turns it into a PDF, and it can email through to whoever you need. You can actually have them as PDFs or JPGs or there's another format in there that I've never used. It's just fantastic. You click, take photo, and it becomes the document. You send it through. At the other end, it comes through as an A4 document, so it's just like sending through a normal scan. You can also use it to fax. You add some credit in there and then fax it on to whoever you like. It's just fantastic. I love it.

Jo Dodds: Wow. I'll have to check that one out.

Jason Buckner: One other tool that I use, which I use even more than CamScanner or Excel, is a piece of software called World Internet Office. It's just what I use to manage all of my clients' websites and operations online. It's just, I think, the most comprehensive one to use in the cloud, a cloud-based internet office, I guess, and that's the one I use.

Jo Dodds: What sort of functionality does that have? What does it do for people?

Jason Buckner: What it does is, from a base level, it's an autoresponder, which is like a ... I'm not sure if everyone
knows what an autoresponder is, so it's basically a way of capturing people's data through an opt-in form on your site and then automating the emails and marketing that goes out afterwards. That's its basic function. Then it also has a shopping cart so you can run an integration with your merchant account onto your website, and have a shopping cart so that people can purchase from you and then have automatic emails or autoresponders that go out afterwards.

It also has management tools like split testing and upsell processes in there, so that you can automate that part of the process as well. You can automatically test a couple of different pages. One might be a video sales page, another one might be a worded sales page, a long-form sales page we call them, and test out which one works the best or test out different prices. It all gets managed within the software. It's quite comprehensive and I love it.

Jo Dodds: Mm. Changing the subject completely, because I think after that we need to. What do you do to relax? That was such a clumsy link, but it did sound a bit complicated. When you're not using Excel and you're not using these complicated ways of making things easy behind the scenes, what do you do?

Jason Buckner: I swim. As I said before, I swim and it's great for relaxation for me, because it makes ... I just completely switch off from all of that organising sort of thing that I do. I also like to ... I like to ski. I go skiing in Australia, which is not very good skiing anymore, but it was once fantastic. I try and ski around the world as often as I can. Travel, I love to travel and experience new places and see different cultures. I'm lucky enough to do that as part of my job as well. I travel a little bit more frequently now than I have for the last couple of years around the world, but it's great to get out there and see different things.

Jo Dodds: Hm. What about keeping healthy? Thinking about things like diet and nutrition. You talked a bit about exercise already. Sleep, I guess, with that jet-setting lifestyle, there's a bit of jet lag in there. How do you cope with all those things?

Jason Buckner: It's a little bit difficult. Once again, I'm going to go back to the exercise thing. I think when you're as active and through as many different time zones as I am sometimes, the most important thing is to do exercise. You keep your body healthy, and it keeps your mind healthy as well. If I'm traveling, if I'm going to the UK, for example, which I did last week, I try not to drink a lot of alcohol leading into it or leading out of it, so that my body is well hydrated and I'm getting enough nutrients and that sort of thing. I like to eat fresh food wherever I can, although I am partial to some chips. I must say I love chips.

Jo Dodds: They're still vegetables!

Jason Buckner: They are still vegetables. That's right. Just because they're deep-fried, it doesn't matter. Yeah, I like to
eat meat and 3 veg, or meat and salad, and just keep it fairly well-balanced.

Jo Dodds: Mm-hmm (affirmative). What about anything around the sleep side of things? As you say, you try not to do too much of the alcohol. Is there anything else to help you to relax or to get you more energised?

Jason Buckner: Sleep, for me, is very important. I like to have a minimum of 9 hours’ sleep a night. If I'm not getting that, then I need to do other things to cope with it, like much more water intake during the day or probably a little bit more exercise or something like that. If I'm getting my 9 hours’ sleep a night, then I'm pretty well happy.

Jo Dodds: Hm. I like what you're saying about not having an alarm to get up. It's something that I crave, but with a small child at school, it's virtually impossible, not to mention my husband getting up to go to work at a certain time. I keep thinking we ought to have separate rooms just so that I can get up when I like.

Jason Buckner: My dogs will not wake me up in the morning. I can guarantee that. They will always be the last ones off the bed.

Jo Dodds: You've trained them well.

Jason Buckner: Yes, that's right.

Jo Dodds: What about improving yourself, learning and developing what you're doing? Do you have certain routines that you use for that or certain resources that you use?

Jason Buckner: Jo, when I was working as an employee, which was almost a year ago, so I started my business almost a
year ago, and before that time, I've always traditionally ... Every year, I'm always doing a course or always doing something to improve myself, because I just like to make things better in the job that I'm doing, or make it easier for myself, or learn new things. That whole approach I've taken into my business now as well, but I've got less time at the moment.

My first year in the business, I'm working quite hard, so I've got less time to put into going to places to learn. I'm doing a little bit more learning online. For example, at the moment, I'm doing some learning from a lady called Kerry Fitzgibbon, who's teaching me how to remarket on Facebook, which is just ... It's just amazing what you can do. It's very exciting and I've got an online video series. I'm learning from her and I think it's fantastic. I'm always trying to ...

Jo Dodds: Can you describe what remarketing on Facebook is for those people who don't know?

Jason Buckner: I certainly can. You do some advertising on Facebook that might, for example, advertise your website where you're trying to sell a product, this is just a general example, and then you can put some cookies or trackers, if you like, onto your website to see whether people click on that page. Then you can see whether they click to the page afterwards which would mean that they've purchased or haven't purchased.

If they haven't purchased, then you can advertise to them again. We noticed you clicked on our page, we noticed you're interested, and remarket to them or advertise through them again in a different form to try and grab their interest again.
Then you can do it as well, say, for an event. If someone signs up for an event, you can track the pages that they go to, so you know that they've purchased. Then you can send them another ad that might be a video, encouraging them to turn up to the event, things like that. You can automate the whole process within Facebook and putting a few tracking pixels onto your website. It's really cool.

Jo Dodds: Mm-hmm, and fits very nicely with your automation.

Jason Buckner: It does fit in quite well with my automation, yes. Also, with my business, I'm trying to ... I guess I'm trying to advertise it in other ways than teaching people from live events and trying to advertise it more on the web. It's something that I'm implementing for myself as well, which is pretty cool.

Jo Dodds: Mm-hmm. What about other stuff that you're learning? Do you do anything outside of business?

Jason Buckner: Not this year. I'd like to do things outside of business, and I guess I'm always learning in the pool. I'm always learning, coaching new swimmers, and learning how to interact better with people through that part of the process, but I do…I have a big event in France in 2018, a swimming event in 2018 in France, in Paris, and I would like to learn French before I come across for it. I've been to Paris a few times and I absolutely love it, but this time, I want to know the language instead of fumbling through.

Jo Dodds: Ah, well, I have a recommendation for you. I interviewed somebody. I don't know whether they'll be before or after you in my podcasts, so it may or may not have already been mentioned. It's an app called Duolingo, D-U-O-L-I-N-G-O, Duolingo. Paula Gardner recommended it to me. I downloaded it 5 days ago, and I am addicted.

Jason Buckner: All right. I'll give it a go.

Jo Dodds: It just takes you through some games and stuff, and it reminds you to do a bit every day. It's really, really good. Yeah, give it a go. There you go. You've got plenty of time.

Jason Buckner: That's the thing I struggle with sometimes as well is I have tried to learn French before, and I struggled then with having someone to talk in French with to further hone my skills. I'm sure I can get on to Skype and talk with some people as well.

Jo Dodds: Yes. Yeah. There was a book I read recently which I can't remember off the top of my head which was ... and I'll put it in the show notes. It was about learning languages in 3 months, I think it was, and one of the big keys to it was about exactly that, getting online and speaking to people, and that that just makes such a big difference. If we both do Duolingo, we can speak to each other in French next time we do a podcast.

Jason Buckner: I guess we can. I guess we can. It's funny. Can I tell a story about learning a language?

Jo Dodds: Yes, of course.

Jason Buckner: Is that okay? Have we got time?

Jo Dodds: Yeah, yes.

Jason Buckner: In high school, for 5 years, I learned German. It was exactly that. When we went into class after the first year, we went into class and we spoke in German. If we didn't understand, we'd get the dictionary out or get a phrasebook out and try and work out what we were saying to each other in German. By the end of it, I was quite fluent in German. I could listen and I could reply. Writing, it was a little bit more difficult, but speaking it was quite easy.

I didn't use my skills except for the odd swear word, I guess, to my friends or having a joke around with my friends until about, oh, how many years later? Let's say probably about 15 years later, 15 years after I finished school, and that might give you an indication of how old I am, folks, but 15 years later, which was a few years ago. I went on this trip from London to Hopfgarten in, where is that, in Austria. It was a Contiki tour. I'm sure everyone's heard of Contiki tours.

It was on a bus. We got on a bus. We caught the ferry across into France and then we drove down, I don't know what the route was, but we ended up in Germany, in the south of Germany, for about an hour and a half. That's when we stopped for breakfast was in Germany. We went into this roadhouse. I'm walking up. I was traveling with my friend and my partner at the time. I'm walking up. I was the only one that knew any German whatsoever. Everyone who'd gone up to the counter before me had been trying to speak in English and the people behind the counter were like, "No, we don't know English," sort of thing. They're getting a bit terse with everyone trying to talk to them in English.

I was the only one that seemed to know any German. I walked up to the counter. I was trying to memorise what it was that was from the menu board above, exactly what I was going to order, this and that, and this and that. I got up to the counter, and I had a complete conversation with him in German and ordered everything that we wanted and paid for it all and got the change, did all of that. The whole conversation was in German. I stopped after I finished, and I thought to myself, "My goodness, where did that come from?" It was the first time I'd ever used it, and I was sweating, I was so worried about coming up to this counter. Just all, my brain obviously clicked, and I was able to speak in German for that 3-1/2 minute conversation. I've never used it again since.

Jo Dodds: That's brilliant. I think the language teaching in Australia must be better than here, because I'm not sure ... I did German for ... I did it probably for 3 years. I have the same thought. I have no idea what any of the words are, and I'm not sure I would have been able to do even 20 seconds, so that's a really impressive story.

Jason Buckner: I'm not sure where it came from, but it worked for those 3 minutes.

Jo Dodds: Yeah, although I did manage to order in Spain when I don't speak Spanish at all, in a restaurant where they said ... We said, "Do you speak English?" They sort of went and sort of hand in the air, you can't see me doing that, hand in the air, let me go and get someone else for you was the sort of indicator. He went off and we were imagining that he was going to be sending back the person in the little restaurant in the middle of nowhere that did actually speak English. No, he sent back the person who also didn't speak English, but was clearly the most patient with the blinking English.

We still had to try and work it out in Spanish, but he was slightly more helpful than the first person. I did manage to not only order the meal, but reorder something we liked after we'd eaten it and didn't know ... We couldn't point. We had to try and sort of say what it was. I remember turning to my family and saying, "He says let's go with this order and see how we get on. We can always add some more later." They were all looking at me like, "Really?" I was going, "I'm sure that's what he said. I don't know how I know that but ..." Maybe we have these moments. I found the book that I was talking about. It's called Fluent in 3 Months, and it's by a guy called Benny Lewis, tips and techniques to help you learn any language. I found that really helpful, but ...

Jason Buckner: Goodness, in 3 months.

Jo Dodds: Yes, exactly. Apparently he was somewhere for, I think, 15 days, and he had a whole process of how he did it. Then he went off to Paris, bumped into somebody in the café, and they imagined he'd been living in France for a year because his French was so good.

Jason Buckner: Wow, that's a good result.

Jo Dodds: Yeah, so I just downloaded it on to my Kindle again, ready for my trip to France, to see if I can learn it in 2 weeks.

Jason Buckner: see if you can hone your skills.

Jo Dodds: There's a book recommendation from me. Do you have any books, films, music that you recommend for either learning or inspiration or just enjoyment?

Jason Buckner: For learning, I guess, inspiration actually, 1 book that I've read recently that has given me a bit of a mindset change as to how I do business and what my goals are in my business and in my life as well is, I think it's called, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Have you read that, Jo?

Jo Dodds: I have, yes, many years ago. Yup.

Jason Buckner: Love it. It was recommended to me. I read it about 12 months ago now. It just changed my approach to things. It was perfect timing as I was starting my own business, just to do things a little bit differently, and to think about investment a little bit differently as well, which I think is gold. I think it's a great book.

Jo Dodds: He also has a game called Cashflow, which a friend of ours lent us, which is you play the game and it helps to teach you some of those principles which seems amazing when you think about a game. We bought the kids' version, so Little Doddsy and her friends regularly play the children's version of the game, which I just think is invaluable learning for them as they're still so young.

Jason Buckner: Definitely. I think there's some really good, great skills in there that your children could learn. I don't have any time to play games myself, but I get a little bit more out of reading, when I can do it anyway.

Jo Dodds: Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Buckner: Music ...

Jo Dodds: Yes.

Jason Buckner: Can I give you a tip about music?

Jo Dodds: Definitely.

Jason Buckner: You may or may not have heard of this artist over there. I think she comes from Europe somewhere however. Her name is Caro Emerald, and she sings some jazz and stuff. It's just nice music to get me in the mood. It gets me in the mood for working. It gets me in the mood for relaxing. It's just everything music to me.

Jo Dodds: Lovely. I'll go and check her out, not heard of her at all, so that's a good recommendation. Thank you. What about on days when things don't go right? We've talked about routines and automation and email and Excel and all that lovely stuff, but what about when things don't go right? I guess that's where the emotional bit comes in, is it?

Jason Buckner: When it happens. It happens to everyone, doesn't it? What do I do if things don't go right? Sometimes I start pulling my hair out and I find myself getting stressed and stressed and more stressed. Then what I generally do, if something's going wrong, is I walk away from it for half an hour. I go outside and take the dogs for a walk. I have to force myself to do this. I have to remind myself to do this every time something happens so that I can just refresh my mind, and then come back to it with different eyes.

If something goes wrong, generally I'll see if I can fix it myself. If I can't fix it myself, I'll go out and see what the experts are doing. I'll go and ask my mentor, or I'll go and ask someone that has more experience in it than me, so they can help me fix it. Generally I'll give it a go myself, and if I can't fix it, I'll ask someone that knows or find someone that knows how to. Yeah.

Jo Dodds: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, good advice, definitely that whole walking away piece and just doing something different can help sometimes. Just in some ways, something happens, you're stuck. Then actually just going away and coming back, and all of a sudden, you've got the answer again, haven't you?

Jason Buckner: Yeah. Yeah. It's good advice, but literally I have to force myself to do it. I think, "No, no, I'll just try some more. I'll just try some more," and then the other voice inside my head is saying, "No, no, go outside and go for a walk. It'll be better," and generally it is.

Jo Dodds: I found that with things like reconciling my accounts and I just cannot get them to balance. Literally I'll leave it, come back, and then it balances straightaway. You think, "Why did I spend 2 hours struggling with it when actually ..."

Jason Buckner: Exactly right.

Jo Dodds: You know, it's interesting.

Jason Buckner: Exactly right. That's a very good example. I've found the same thing. You'll go over it for an hour or 2 hours or 3 hours. Then you'll walk away and come back, and have a look, and it's like, "Oh, that's the problem right there."

Jo Dodds: Yes, we should learn from this. We should listen to our own podcasts and learn from them.

Jason Buckner: I think we should. That's right.

Jo Dodds: Lovely. On a day when you end the day knowing you've had the chance to live more, and that's where I talk about doing what you really want to do rather than the stuff that you need to do or the stuff that you feel that you should do, what have you done? What does that day look like?

Jason Buckner: I guess living more for me is ... It can be many things, many different things. It could be one of my passions, like skiing. It could be I've skied down a terribly steep mountain. I might have fallen down half of it or I might have skied to my best ability down it or something like that, and the thrill of that really makes me feel like I've lived more. It could be coaching one of my swimmers or watching one of my swimmers swim in competition to beat their personal best times.

That's always a thrill for me, and I thrive on that sort of thing as well. Either the interaction and watching people grow in the sport, and then seeing them achieve, and seeing the look on their faces when they've done it, and everything is just fantastic. Or it could be one of my automation students, when they make their first sale online automatically or something like that. They've done their marketing and everything just works for them. They get so excited, and they jump up and down. You can't see me, but I'm jumping up and down right now.

That is quite a thrill for me as well, or even I like to ... My mother had never been overseas until a few years ago. I said to her, it was 2010 and it was about 6 months before I was going to take her overseas, and I said, "Mom, you need to get a passport, because I'm going to take you overseas." She was like, "What? Really?" I said, "Yes, yes, get a passport." She said, "Where are we going?" I said, "I'm not telling. You can pack some winter clothes and you can pack some summer clothes. You'll find out when we get there."

In the end, I gave in a little bit and gave her the guidebook for a couple of the locations. The first location was Hong Kong, and then the second location was London, and the third location was Paris. She was beside herself. She was so amazed. She thought this was the most amazing trip she was ever going to go on in her life. It was probably was as well and will be, but the day that we were going to the airport, all of our family was there to see her off. Then I handed her a guidebook for New York and one for Los Angeles as well.

Then she was in tears because she thought this was going to be the trip already, the wonderful destinations we were going to already. Just to see the look on her face in every one of those destinations and see the vigour and drive and determination she had to go to everything she wanted to see or everything that we wanted to see, to eat whatever cheeses in Paris or drink whatever champagne, and just have a good time, and just see that look on her face is golden. To experience those sorts of experiences is living for me. It's great.

Jo Dodds: That was such an amazing story to have told. I've got goosebumps and I'm feeling really emotional now. I'm thinking about your mom and how she must have felt and just the family, as you say, seeing her and the look on her face with that surprise, so that was a brilliant answer to finish the interview with. Thank you so much, Jason.

Jason Buckner: No problems.

Jo Dodds: How can people find out more about you and connect with you?

Jason Buckner: If they go to my website, you can go to automationmadeeasy.com.au/jo, and I'll have an opt-in there so
people can get a free report from me about automation. Then an email will come out and they can just reply to that email if they have any questions or need any further advice from me.

Jo Dodds: That's brilliant. Thank you so much for joining me. Really, really enjoyed it, and we've got some great recommendations for people. We've even mentioned Excel. I can't believe it.

Jason Buckner: Many times, many times. Thank you for the opportunity, and I've enjoyed it very much.

About the Author

I work with business owners and leaders to improve their wellbeing, in these days of overwhelm, whether that be physical, mental or digital, using my POWER to Live More 5 Fundamentals of Simplify, Systemise, Share, Self Care and Sustain. I also work with business leaders to help them to improve their organisational employee engagement and wellbeing. I believe they are interlinked in a lovely virtuous circle.

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